TERRY GROSS, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross. When Andre De Shields' name is mentioned, it's often preceded by the words Broadway legend or the great. He won a Tony for his performance in the musical "Hadestown" in 2019, and the show won seven other Tonys, including best musical. Stars of the original Broadway cast, including De Shields, reunited for a revival of the show last year in London. That production was filmed and will be released in theaters on Friday. Right now, De Shields is one of the stars of "Cats: The Jellicle Ball," which won three Tonys last month. It uses the same songs as "Cats," but with different beats and is set in the queer underground ballroom culture of the '80s. That show is closing August 8.
De Shields is especially remarkable, considering he's 80 and has been HIV positive since 1991. He grew up in Baltimore, in what he describes as the innermost part of Baltimore's inner city, and figured getting an education would be key to getting out. He earned his BA in English literature at the University of Wisconsin in Madison and an MA in African American studies from NYU.
He started his career in experimental theater in Chicago. When his theater group performed in New York, he decided to stay. He soon got cast as the wizard in the 1975 original Broadway cast of "The Wiz," which was produced a few years before the movie. He was nominated for a Tony for his performance in the show "Ain't Misbehavin'," which was built around music associated with Fats Waller. And he won an Emmy when it was produced for a 1982 NBC broadcast. He was nominated for another Tony for his performance in "The Full Monty." He's performed in a wide range of dramas, including "King Lear," "Waiting For Godot" and "Death Of A Salesman."
Let's start with Andre De Shields singing the opening number of "Hadestown," in which he sets up the story and introduces the characters. The show tells a version of the Greek myths about Hades, Hermes, Orpheus and Eurydice. De Shields plays Hermes, the god who escorts the souls of the dead to the underworld, which is ruled by Hades. Here's De Shields from the original Broadway cast recording.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "ROAD TO HELL")
ANDRE DE SHIELDS: (Vocalizing). Chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga. Chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga. Chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga. Chugga, chugga, chugga, chugga. (Singing) Once upon a time, there was a railroad line. Don't ask where, brother, don't ask when. It was the road to hell, it was hard times, it was a world of gods and men. It's an old song, it's an old song, it's an old tale from way back when. It's an old song, it's an old song, and we're going to sing it again.
GROSS: Andre De Shields, welcome to FRESH AIR. Congratulations on all the things that you're doing now. I just think it's great. Did you ever believe that despite having been diagnosed with HIV in 1991, and believing that you had it considerably before that but you just didn't have the diagnosis, that you'd not only live to see age 80, but that you'd be in a new film version of a musical you'd want a Tony for, and at the same time, you'd be on Broadway as one of the stars of "Cats: The Jellicle Ball"?
DE SHIELDS: The answer to that question is yes.
GROSS: And my answer to that is no.
(LAUGHTER)
DE SHIELDS: I believed, from my very first conscious thought, that my destiny would rise up and meet me. So when my mother shared with me that her lifelong dream had been to be a chorus girl - and that was the term she used. She didn't say dancer. She said chorus girl. And my father shared with me that he had always wanted to be a singer. He had a beautiful tone of voice. But the closest he got to that dream coming true was to sing in the church choir.
Those two bits of knowledge only reaffirmed what I had been dreaming about since the day I was born. I wanted to sing. I wanted to dance. Now I can look at it and understand, oh, wow, it's been bequeathed to me by those X and Y chromosomes that was responsible for my conception.
GROSS: HIV, when you had it in '91, it was a death sentence. You had two partners who died of AIDS, and friends as well, cast members who you worked with. So you really thought you were going to be on Broadway at the age of 80?
DE SHIELDS: I didn't think I was going to be on Broadway at the age of 80, but I did know that I would be alive.
GROSS: Wow.
DE SHIELDS: And I did know that I would continue on my path. And I had already in 1980, before there was an acronym, HIV, that I had had an infection of my lymph nodes. And not any one of three doctors on two continents could answer the question, what is this? Now, in 1979, when I had gone to London for the first time to perform in "Ain't Misbehavin'," there was already a friend of mine who caught a cold, and three days later, he was dead. So the mystery was already in the air.
How can someone die from a cold? There's something going on that nobody understands. So when my lymph nodes blew up in 1980 in Los Angeles on the tour of "Ain't Misbehavin'," I clocked it immediately. Whatever that mystery is, I'm beginning to decode it. I'm beginning to understand it.
GROSS: Wait, so you were symptomatic for 11 years before you were diagnosed?
DE SHIELDS: Yes.
GROSS: That's a long time.
DE SHIELDS: And when I finally got the clinical diagnosis, I had 16 T cells. So I was near death. But I knew I wasn't going to die.
GROSS: Wow. You know, "Hadestown" is about the souls of the dead. So seeing "Hadestown" made me think about the stories that human beings have told themselves over the centuries about why we are living and why we die. And the Greek myths are, you know, early examples of that. When you did "Hadestown," when you were performing in it and when you went back, which I imagine you did, to read the myths that "Hadestown" draws on, did it make you think about that, the stories we've told ourselves about what happens after we die, how they've changed over time?
DE SHIELDS: I did exactly that. And I also - there's an African proverb, which is based on a bird. And the bird is called a sankofa. It's a flightless bird, and it is known to walk deliberately forward. But every once in a while, it looks over its shoulder. The lesson there is, if you do not know where you're coming from, where you've been, you can't possibly know where you're headed, where you're going.
And when I was asked to embody the role of Hermes, not only did that proverb come to mind. But all of the close calls that I had experienced in my life came to mind, and I felt prepared to take on this role. Hermes is the creature that accompanies humans when they have to cross the River Styx to visit in Hades. You can't get there if Hermes does not accompany you.
GROSS: How have you changed how you can perform on stage at the age of 80? No one is as limber, but you still move with such grace.
DE SHIELDS: You're absolutely correct about what we think about the human body and the human spirit. Let's talk about the physical part of that. Yes, Mr. Arthur has visited me. I've got arthritis. My knees are compromised. My joints ache. But I've got a doctor. His name is Dr. Footlights. Her name...
GROSS: (Laughter).
DE SHIELDS: Her name is Dr. Footlights. And when I stand on that stage, and when those lights come up, and when the audience greets me, the pain disappears.
GROSS: Well, let's take a short break here, and then we'll talk some more. If you're just joining us, my guest is Andre De Shields. He's currently on Broadway in "Cats: The Jellicle Ball." He won a 2019 Tony for his performance in the musical "Hadestown" as Hermes. And now he's in the new film of last year's London revival that reunited the stars of the original Broadway show, including De Shields. That movie opens Friday. We'll be right back. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF ORIGINAL CAST OF THE WIZ'S "TORNADO")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with Andre De Shields. He won a Tony for his performance in the musical "Hadestown." He plays the role again in a new movie of the show, which opens Friday, and he's currently on Broadway in "Cats: The Jellicle Ball."
So I want to ask you about "Cats: The Jellicle Ball." It's set in the queer ballroom culture, where there are drag competitions in different categories relating to, like, singing, dance, costumes. Were you a part of that at all, either as a participant or an observer?
DE SHIELDS: I was not a part of the ball culture, as we know it here in New York, and we give it a birth decade of the '80s. But I did know a phenomenon called the Jewel Box Revue, and it toured the Chitlin' Circuit. I'm talking about the middle to late '50s in the last century.
GROSS: And the Chitlin' Circuit was, like, a circuit of, like, Black theaters - started, like, in the Vaudeville era, I think.
DE SHIELDS: Exactly. And in Baltimore, the theater was called The Royal. And of course, in the '60s, urban renewal razed it, and the cultural spine of the city died. However, I was able to see entertainment like my first Motown Revue at The Royal. I was able to see Moms Mabley at The Royal. I was able to see Flip Wilson at The Royal. I was also able to see the Jewel Box Revue, which was a company of men who dressed as women, and they were gorgeous. At that time, they were called transvestites, which comes from, I think, the French word le travesti. But it's all about the idea that life is never what you think it is. Nothing is what it seems to be. And seeing the Jewel Box Revue was part of my education as an entertainer.
GROSS: What did it mean to you...
DE SHIELDS: I was in...
GROSS: ...Seeing people...
DE SHIELDS: It...
GROSS: ...Who were drag performers?
DE SHIELDS: It meant that fantasy had to be in my toolbox. It meant that what we do in our actual lives is what I, as a performer, must do on the stage. I must fool people. I must pretend. The ancient Greek word for actor means hypocrite. We must tell a lie in order to get through the 24-hour drudgery of each day.
GROSS: Did seeing drag performers add to your desire and ability to dress in very, like, nonconforming ways with, like, bright colors and, like, short shorts? Walking the streets of Manhattan, you talked about how people would, like, kind of, like, walk in the opposite direction 'cause...
DE SHIELDS: (Laughter).
GROSS: ...You looked - you were so outstanding-looking that it was kind of almost scary to some people.
DE SHIELDS: Yes. Yes.
GROSS: Like, so eccentric-looking. Did that contribute to you feeling that you wanted to and were able to wear whatever you wanted to and call attention to yourself in a very colorful and fashionable way, original way?
DE SHIELDS: Exactly.
GROSS: Yeah.
DE SHIELDS: Exactly. But now, Terry, you and I have only spoken for a few minutes, and we don't really know one another. But I'll bet you already know that I like to wax poetic. And wearing bright colors and saying, pay attention to me, even to the point of deliberately slowing my gait - I don't rush anywhere. I walk slowly. My reputation is that Andre De Shields doesn't walk. He floats.
GROSS: (Laughter).
DE SHIELDS: Now - but this is because each of us, if we want to do something as commonplace as be happy, and if we want to do something as exceptional as being called a legend, then one really must commit to being his best self.
GROSS: What are some of the things you've seen change on Broadway over the years? 'Cause you started on Broadway in the '70s. And also, as a Black actor, there aren't necessarily a whole lot of opportunities now either for Black actors, but there's more than there were. Yet you managed to be in two of the shows with Black casts - "Ain't Misbehavin'" and "The Wiz."
DE SHIELDS: Well, you've explained it in a nutshell. In the early '70s, Broadway was an inhospitable terrain for Black actors and Black audiences. And with the advent of "The Wiz," that all changed. Part of the change had to do with the decision by the producer, Ken Harper, to take some of the money and invest it in live-action TV commercials so that we could lean into the living room and speak to our brethren who were sitting on the couch and say to them, don't sit there and become a couch potato. There's something that represents you playing on Broadway. You no longer have any reason to avoid it. You have a reason to come and become part of it.
So "The Wiz" opened that door for the growth of a Black audience on Broadway and an invitation to Black artists to perform on Broadway. And we took that lesson from the brilliant film that starred Judy Garland, "The Wizard Of Oz." But I certainly identified with her huge vulnerability, which made her a tremendous lesson in how to get an audience of people to pay attention.
Now, that storyline was the exclusive world of white actors and white audiences. But the magic that Ken Harper brought to the production was to take that line of truth out of Dorothy's mouth, which is, there's no place like home, and put it in the mouth of a little colored girl who sang in her church's choir. And once you do that, then it becomes universal. And that is what "The Wiz" should be remembered for.
GROSS: Your father, who wanted to be a singer, sang in church. How churchy was your family, and was that your first stage?
DE SHIELDS: The family wasn't very churchy, but they were pious people. They read their Bibles on a daily basis. And everyone prayed for me, and I didn't have to wonder why. I knew that I was the blackest of the black sheep in the family. And my mother, particularly, would take me to revival meetings. And when the preacher would ask for people to come down to the makeshift pulpit - people who wanted to know Jesus - my mother would always look at me, and that was encouragement enough. And I would go down, and I would get on my knees. And I would, in quotes, accept Christ as my savior. Not only did it please the preacher, but it pleased my mother.
GROSS: But it wasn't real?
DE SHIELDS: Oh, of course not. And I'm not making fun of it. I'm just saying I was being a good child. I was pleasing my mother. But I knew I wanted to sing the devil's music. I wanted to go rip-roaring through life. Not cast caution to the wind, but have a great time being myself.
GROSS: Well, we need to take a break here, so let's continue this very soon. If you're just joining us, my guest is Andre De Shields, and he won a Tony for his performance in the musical "Hadestown." He plays the role again in the new movie of the show, which opens Friday. He's currently on Broadway in "Cats: The Jellicle Ball." We'll continue our interview after a short break. I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF FATS WALLER'S "VIPER'S DRAG")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR, I'm Terry Gross. Let's get back to my interview with Andre De Shields. He won a Tony for his performance in the musical "Hadestown." He plays the role again in a new movie of the show, which opens Friday. He's currently on Broadway in "CATS The Jellicle Ball," which closes August 8. He played the Wizard in the original Broadway cast of "The Wiz." He was nominated for Tonys for his performances in the Fats Waller musical "Ain't Misbehavin'" and the musical adaptation of the film, "The Full Monty."
Your parents both wanted to be in show biz - your mother, a chorus girl...
DE SHIELDS: Right, right.
GROSS: ...Your father, a singer, and you felt that you kind of inherited their dreams that they couldn't fulfill, and you fulfilled them.
DE SHIELDS: Yeah.
GROSS: But what was their reaction when they learned that you were really serious about being a performer? Did they encourage you?
DE SHIELDS: Ultimately, I was encouraged. In the beginning, when people would ask me, Andre, what do you want to - what are you going to do when you grow up? And my response was, I'm going to be a star. And they looked at me as if I had two heads. And then I managed to leave the neighborhood and be the first of that community to attend college. And they started to believe that I was a miracle maker.
And while I was a junior in college, the head of the drama department came to me and said, are you in the drama department? I said, no, I'm studying English. Why do you want to know? He said, well, I think this campus would benefit from a production of Lorraine Hansberry's "A Raisin In The Sun." But there aren't enough Black students - let alone in the drama department - for me to do this. But I can do it by inviting people from the town to join us. I just can't find the boy to play Walter Lee Younger. And I would like you to do that.
Now, all my young life, I kept close to my vest that I wanted to be an actor. And here was the blessing being offered to me. So members of my family took the bus all the way out to Wilmington, Ohio - not the entire family, but enough of the family - to see me at the age of 19 perform as Walter Lee Younger in "A Raisin In The Sun." And that's when it happened. Wow, Andre, you really have talent. And then the support began to grow.
GROSS: What do you think your - the drama teacher saw in you that made him or her realize that you belonged on stage?
DE SHIELDS: First of all, he saw a Black male student. Second of all, he saw a young man who carried himself as if he were a king, which I still do. My mission, my journey is to discover the throne to which I know I am heir. So that's what I carry in my mind and my heart and in my viscera as I walked on the quad when I was 19 years old at Wilmington College in Ohio. And that drama teacher - he witnessed the drama. And he knew, this young man has it in him to play Walter Lee Younger, who had the hugest chip on his shoulder - Walter Lee Younger, as the character in "Raisin In The Sun." And at 19, by playing that character, I was able to dissolve the chip that was on my shoulder.
GROSS: What was the chip that was on your shoulder?
DE SHIELDS: I'm a Black man, and I'm tired of being taken advantage of. You did this to me. I can't get anywhere, and it's your fault. That's the chip. I can get anywhere I want. And it's my doing.
GROSS: And what dissolved that chip was embodying a character who couldn't get rid of...
DE SHIELDS: Exactly.
GROSS: ...Couldn't get rid of it?
DE SHIELDS: I mean, that's - yes. That's...
GROSS: And seeing how that hurt him?
DE SHIELDS: Exactly. That's essential to "Raisin In The Sun." Walter Lee Younger, who's supposed to be the man of the family, blames everything on Mr. Whitey (ph). And the mother says to him, oh, stop.
GROSS: One of the people who inspired you to become a performer, made you think, maybe you could really do it, was John Bubbles, when you...
DE SHIELDS: Yes.
GROSS: ...Saw him in the 1943 musical film "Cabin In The Sky," which has such an...
DE SHIELDS: Yes.
GROSS: ...Incredible cast. It's like, Ethel Waters, Lena Horne...
DE SHIELDS: (Laughter).
GROSS: ...Louis Armstrong, the Duke Ellington Orchestra and John Bubbles. So...
DE SHIELDS: Eddie "Rochester" Anderson, whom we all...
GROSS: Right.
DE SHIELDS: ...Know...
GROSS: From "The Jack Benny Show."
DE SHIELDS: ...From "The Jack Benny Show."
GROSS: Yeah.
DE SHIELDS: Yeah.
GROSS: Yeah. So let me play a little bit of John Bubbles from that film, and then we'll talk about what this meant to you. And in this film, he's in a nightclub, and the Duke Ellington Orchestra is backing him up. He walks in, like, really dapper, like, elegant suit. He has a cane, kind of like Fred Astaire when he was dancing, and everybody's like, admiring him. And then he breaks out into song.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "CABIN IN THE SKY")
JOHN BUBBLES: (As Domino Johnson, singing) They wouldn't fly. I got my shirt from a silver lining. I got my cane from an old oak tree. And that is just the reason why the folks all nickname me. Just because my hair's curly and because my teeth are pearly. And just because I always wear a smile and suits to dress up in the latest style. Gee, I'm glad I'm living while I take troubles all with a smile. Just because my color's shady, a wee bit different, maybe, that's why they call me Shine.
GROSS: So listening back to that, Andre De Shields, what memories does it bring back, and how did it inspire you?
DE SHIELDS: Now, Terry Gross, this is why among radio journalists, you are the goddess...
GROSS: Oh, thank you.
DE SHIELDS: ...Because that song, "Shine" - which is a race song - was my audition song when I came to New York. It's how I got "The Wiz." It's how I got "Ain't Misbehavin'."
GROSS: Really? This is what you sang?
DE SHIELDS: It - yes. And only recently have I - I didn't stop using it, but I don't need it any longer because now people know who Andre De Shields is.
GROSS: Why did you choose it? And what do you think of the lyric?
DE SHIELDS: I chose it because of the lyrics. Now, you played from, like, the middle of the song.
GROSS: Yes.
DE SHIELDS: But the...
GROSS: 'Cause I wanted...
DE SHIELDS: But the...
GROSS: ...Some of the slower part and some of the faster part where the...
DE SHIELDS: Yeah. Yeah.
GROSS: ...Tempo picks up.
DE SHIELDS: But the song opens with a note that John Bubbles sings, and it's as if he's never going to stop hitting that note. And you are amazed by this man singing this long tenor note. And just at the moment when you think he's going to stop, he goes into what is essentially his biography. And I thought, wow. That's exactly what I need - another tool in my toolbox.
GROSS: There's a song, and I'm trying to think of which one it is, where you hold a note excessively long.
DE SHIELDS: Well, have you seen "Cats: The Jellicle Ball"? When I make my entrance as Old Deuteronomy, I sustain a note - and I know this because people have timed it - for 44 seconds.
GROSS: Whoa. That's a long time.
DE SHIELDS: That's a long time. But I learned that from John Bubbles, from watching "Cabin In The Sky" in the darkened atmosphere of The Royal Theater, where the Chitlin' Circuit would visit. Every performance in "Cabin In The Sky" was superlative. And Vincente Minnelli knew that, which is why these folks were cast, because they were...
GROSS: He directed it.
DE SHIELDS: ...The best. Vincente Minnelli, yes - Judy Garland's husband, the father of Liza Minnelli. Do you see the connection - the great vulnerability from Judy Garland, which she gave to Liza Minnelli, who's the daughter of Vincente Minnelli, who directed the film that circumcised my heart.
GROSS: Yeah. Nice connection. I mean...
DE SHIELDS: Yeah.
GROSS: It's an interesting connection. I've...
DE SHIELDS: Yeah.
GROSS: ...Never heard somebody say, circumcise my heart.
(LAUGHTER)
GROSS: I'm just thinking...
DE SHIELDS: Well, you know...
GROSS: ...About that for a minute.
DE SHIELDS: But you know what I mean, don't you?
GROSS: I do.
DE SHIELDS: Yeah. Take away that which is unnecessary and leave you with the gold.
GROSS: Do you still sing that song? And would you maybe want to sing it for us now?
DE SHIELDS: (Laughter) Oh, yes. Yes. You're making a Black man blush right now. I know you can't see it.
GROSS: Whenever you're ready.
DE SHIELDS: (Singing) What is there about me that - what is there about you, what? - makes me feel well-dressed? Whatever that is, that's what you is - the same old clothes, shoes and hat. The same old thing rearranged. Oh, it's very plain to see just how this happened to be. I put some polish on my sky-piece. I turned my shoestring into a tie. I cut the corners off the edge of my coat so they wouldn't fly. I got my smile from a silver lining. I got my cane from an old oak tree. And that is just the reason why they call me shine (vocalizing).
GROSS: You have a powerful voice. And you sang the part that we didn't play at the beginning...
DE SHIELDS: Right. That's right.
GROSS: ...That you were talking...
DE SHIELDS: Right. Right.
GROSS: ...About. So I'm...
DE SHIELDS: Right.
GROSS: ...Really...
DE SHIELDS: Right. Right.
GROSS: ...Glad you did that.
My guest is Andre De Shields. He's currently on Broadway in "Cats: The Jellicle Ball" and in the film version of the musical "Hadestown," which will be in movie theaters this Friday. More after a break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with Andre De Shields. He won a Tony for his performance in the musical "Hadestown." He plays the role again in a new movie of the show, which opens Friday, and he's currently on Broadway in "Cats: The Jellicle Ball."
So when you started in theater, it was experimental theater. The theater company performed in New York. You decided to stay. And then you got the role in "The Wiz" as The Wizard of Oz. That's incredible - that you got such an...
DE SHIELDS: Actually...
GROSS: ...Important part so quickly. And the timing was perfect because it was, like, a Black cast, and there weren't many Black actors on stage. So, like, what an incredible door to open for you at exactly the right time.
DE SHIELDS: Exactly.
GROSS: And...
DE SHIELDS: And there...
GROSS: You literally begged for the chance to audition...
DE SHIELDS: (Laughter).
GROSS: ...For "The Wiz."
DE SHIELDS: You've done your research, huh? (Laughter).
GROSS: And your costume that you wore on stage is in the Smithsonian Museum of African American History. Why don't you describe it? 'Cause obviously, it's worthy of the...
DE SHIELDS: Right.
GROSS: ...Smithsonian. So describe it for us?
DE SHIELDS: Now, remember, "The Wiz" opened on Broadway on January 5, 1975. It was the peak of the decade of permissiveness, particularly for men who thought of themselves as beautiful. So we were wearing tight bell bottom jeans. We were wearing short-sleeve shirts. We were wearing these huge Jimi Hendrix afros. We were wearing jewelry, bracelets, big rings and wearing platform shoes. So that's exactly what I invested in the character of The Wiz. He wears a white jumpsuit that looks as if it were painted on him as if he were out of a Marvel comic book. He has a long crepe de chine cape. He's wearing 5-inch white platform boots. And he is wearing character makeup that makes him unidentifiable so that when he is finally revealed as just another loser, there's a great impact.
GROSS: Another fraud, another con man.
DE SHIELDS: Yes, yes. There's a great impact on not only Dorothy and her three friends, but the entire audience.
GROSS: So you were in "The Wiz," which is pretty incredible. And then just like three years after being in "The Wiz," you're cast in "Ain't Misbehavin'," a musical review built around songs identified with Fats Waller. So let's hear a little bit of you singing from that. And most of the songs are sung by, you know, one or two other characters. It's a five-person cast, and some songs have all five of you. So I'm going to play part of the title song, "Ain't Misbehavin'." And this is a part where you solo. We'll pick it up right before that.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "AIN'T MISBEHAVIN'")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (Singing) I'm saving my love for you.
Oh, hi, Daddy.
DE SHIELDS: (Singing) Like Jack Horner in the corner. Don't go nowhere. What do I care? Your kisses are worth waitin' for, b-b-b-believe me.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (Singing) I don't stay out late. I don't care to go.
DE SHIELDS: (Singing) I'm home about 8, just me and my neighbor's radio. I can't afford one.
ANDRE DE SHIELDS AND UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: (Singing) Misbehavin', I'm saving my love for you, saving my love just for you.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Oh, shucks, Daddy. I love it when you move.
GROSS: Did you already love Fats Waller's music when you were cast on the show?
DE SHIELDS: No, I wasn't a lover of Fats Waller's music, but I love the period.
GROSS: The period that he performed in?
DE SHIELDS: Yes, the Harlem Renaissance.
GROSS: Thirtys, '40s?
DE SHIELDS: Harlem Renaissance. Yeah.
GROSS: The literature, too?
DE SHIELDS: Yes. And curiously, it is still that part of American history that is identified with Black excellence. When, indeed - when February comes around, the shortest and coldest month of the year, and we celebrate Black heritage, we have to remind people that Black history is American history. And the Harlem Renaissance was just one of its peaks.
GROSS: Well, I'm going to take a pause and reintroduce you here because I need to take a break. So let me do that. If you're just joining us, my guest is Andre De Shields. He's currently on Broadway in "Cats: The Jellicle Ball." He won a 2019 Tony for his performance in the musical "Hadestown" as Hermes. He's in the new film of last year's London revival that reunited stars from the original Broadway show. It opens on Friday. We'll be right back. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF QUINCY JONES' "POPPY GIRLS")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. Let's get back to my interview with Andre De Shields. He won a Tony for his performance in the musical "Hadestown." He plays the role again in a new movie of the show, which opens Friday. And he's currently on Broadway in "Cats: The Jellicle Ball."
I want to change the subject and go back to the '90s, when you were diagnosed with HIV in '91...
DE SHIELDS: OK.
GROSS: ...And your partner of 17 years died of AIDS. And then, three years after that, a partner of two years died of AIDS. Did you take care of them when they were really sick?
DE SHIELDS: I did. I became the nurse.
GROSS: What was it like for you?
DE SHIELDS: I'll share this with you. My first partner had been told by his doctor that if you ever run a fever of 104 or higher, you must immediately check yourself into the ER, the emergency room. Not too long after that, it happened. And I said to him, Chico, you have a fever of 104. You recall what the doctor said. Do you want me to take you to the ER? And he said, no. And I said, well, what do you want to do? And he said, I want to die in your arms. Simple as that.
GROSS: Did that happen?
DE SHIELDS: Yes.
GROSS: Was it that night?
DE SHIELDS: No. It was sometime later. And it was in the hospital.
GROSS: What was your reaction when he said that? Was it to, like, try to convince him, no, go to the ER? I'll be with you?
DE SHIELDS: No, no, no, no, no. He was compos mentis. I asked him a question, he responded, and I acted accordingly until it was impossible to do so when I had to make decisions for him.
GROSS: How did it change you to be surrounded by the death of people who you loved, the death of people who were very close friends and who were colleagues onstage?
DE SHIELDS: I became a missionary, and I became an advocate. And now AIDS, or at least HIV, is a condition that one can live with. I have for 45 years.
GROSS: Which is remarkable.
DE SHIELDS: But what had to happen in this process, which is why I say I became a missionary, is that not everyone is infected with HIV, but everyone is affected by HIV. And that's because we have criminalized it. And what we have to do is remove that stigma.
GROSS: So we're recording this on Thursday, July 16. And "Cats: The Jellicle Ball," and you're one of the stars, that closes on August 8. So there are not many performances left. What do you do during intermissions when you're doing a Broadway show?
DE SHIELDS: First things first, go to the bathroom.
GROSS: Yes (laughter).
DE SHIELDS: As a matter of fact, when I was...
(LAUGHTER)
DE SHIELDS: When I was touring with "The Me Nobody Knows," one of the performances was done at the civic stage of the Chicago opera house. And Katharine Hepburn was there doing "Coco." And she allowed us to meet her at one point because we had been asking our stage manager, why is it so cold in the theater? We shared space. And he thought, oh, well, this is the time for you to meet Katharine Hepburn. And two things we learned, (impersonating Katharine Hepburn) don't perform in a temperature higher than 45 degrees.
GROSS: (Laughter).
DE SHIELDS: And (impersonating Katharine Hepburn) even if you don't have to go, go. So during intermission, go to the bathroom, whether you have the urge or not.
GROSS: You have a performance tonight, so I'm going to let you go in a couple of minutes. How are you feeling about these final performances? Are you savoring, like, every minute?
DE SHIELDS: Well, it didn't take the announcement of its closing to savor every minute. That happens eight times a week because the people who are coming to see "Cats: The Jellicle Ball" are coming to celebrate not their own liberation, because we've arrived there some time ago, but that finally there's this intersection of history and evolution that allows it to be aboveground.
GROSS: Andre De Shields, it's been wonderful talking with you. Thank you so much.
DE SHIELDS: It's the highlight of my day. I'm going to share it with everyone at the theater. They love for me to bring these kinds of rare opportunities into their lives.
GROSS: Well, I wish you all the best. Thank you so much.
DE SHIELDS: It was my pleasure. Thank you.
GROSS: Andre De Shields plays Hermes in a new film version of the stage musical "Hadestown." It's the same role he won a Tony for seven years ago in the original Broadway production. The film opens in theaters this Friday. Tomorrow on FRESH AIR, our guest will be New Yorker staff writer Jia Tolentino. She coined the term Instagram face. Now she's back with a warning.
Plastic surgery has become so pervasive and undetectable, it's quietly changing what we think a real human face looks like. Her article, "Our Plastic-Surgery Nightmare," delves into what happens when we can no longer trust our own eyes. I hope you'll join us. To keep up with what's on the show and get highlights of our interviews, follow us on Instagram at @nprfreshair.
(SOUNDBITE OF FATS WALLER'S "HONEYSUCKLE ROSE")
GROSS: FRESH AIR's executive producer is Sam Briger. Our technical director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our engineer today is Adam Staniszewski. Our interviews and reviews are produced and edited by Phyllis Myers, Ann Marie Baldonado, Lauren Krenzel, Therese Madden, Monique Nazareth, Thea Chaloner, Susan Nyakundi, Anna Bauman and Nico Gonzalez-Wisler. Our digital media producer is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. Our co-host is Tonya Mosley. I'm Terry Gross.
(SOUNDBITE OF FATS WALLER'S "HONEYSUCKLE ROSE") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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