JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
A historic moment for public broadcasting, including NPR - the U.S. Congress stands on the cusp of taking back all of the money it has approved for public media for the next two years. NPR media correspondent David Folkenflik joins us to explain how we got here and what it means for the future. And I'll just note that under NPR's protocols for reporting on itself, no corporate official or news executive has reviewed this interview before this broadcast. David, thanks for being here.
DAVID FOLKENFLIK, BYLINE: You bet.
SUMMERS: So first thing, I just want to get caught up on the state of play. Tell us where things stand on Capitol Hill right now.
FOLKENFLIK: So things have been approved in the Senate. They are sending over a bill that would take back all $1.1 billion set aside for public broadcasting for the next two years that has already been approved, I would remind folks, by this Republican-led Congress and the Republican president who opposes public broadcasting so much. That's, of course, Donald Trump. The House leaders have said they intend to get this passed and to do it by the deadline, which would be the very end of the day tomorrow, Friday, at, you know, midnight, basically, and they have a paper-thin margin by which to do that. But given the way things have played out in recent weeks on Capitol Hill, it seems likely that they'll pull it off.
SUMMERS: I mean, public broadcasting has largely enjoyed really strong bipartisan support over the decades. I mean, we are talking about the people who are responsible for bringing us "Sesame Street" and "Masterpiece Theatre," Fresh Air and the Tiny Desk Concert. And these are all creators now seen as divisive. What's changed?
FOLKENFLIK: Well, lots changed over the years. First off, obviously, there's been vast changes in technology and what people are producing. There aren't just a handful of networks anymore. There's, you know, a gazillion of them. There are streamers and apps and all kinds of local producers and individual content creators. You know, Republicans on the Hill say, and the White House has said, this is necessary to pay for other things in the budget. But it's a tiny fraction of a single percent of the federal budget annually.
You know, I think also that, you know, it's fair to say that NPR and public broadcasting more generally were seen once as an alternative to commercial media, and now they're seen as sort of part of pillars of the establishment. And support for all these major institutions across society, including the media, has gone down significantly in recent decades. So instead of being seen as an answer for many people - although certainly by no means all - you know, public broadcasting is now seen as part of the problem.
SUMMERS: David, President Trump sought to wipe out all federal funding for NPR, PBS, as well as member stations back in his first term. Assuming the House does pass this vote and meet that deadline that we've been talking about, how did President Trump and his allies assure that this would be successful this time around?
FOLKENFLIK: Well, I think it's fair to say that since entering public life in the gusto about a decade ago, he's embarked on a war on the media, but he really came to play in a different way in this second term. You know, before taking office, he essentially sued two major commercial networks - CBS, ABC - as a private individual. And he's using what levers of power available to him in office as well - you know, using his regulator against pretty much all the major networks, including among them NPR, PBS, having informal investigations or reviews of them - all of them except Fox News, which is essentially an allied institution to himself - and getting - you know, encouraging Congress to go after funding for NPR and PBS as well as questions about Voice of America.
I might add that he's using levers of power against his own party as well. He made clear as recently as late last week that he would not support Republicans in Congress who did not vote to entirely eradicate federal funding for public broadcasting. That's a pretty strong level of persuasion.
SUMMERS: David, sum up for us, if you can, what you've been hearing from the networks and stations in response to these developments.
FOLKENFLIK: Well, of course, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting is a not-for-profit institution that funnels federal money. A little bit of it goes NPR directly, more - about 15% a year - to PBS and their stations - that is to say, 15% of their revenues each year from Public - the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. But, you know, they're vastly disparate levels. Some smaller stations, rural stations, tribal stations might depend on federal funding not for the average of 8- to 10% for radio or 15% for TV, but more like 40-, 50%. So that's going to take an incredible hit, and you may see some real consolidations or closures.
SUMMERS: We'll let you have the last word here. In a sentence or two, where do public media go from here?
FOLKENFLIK: I think you're going to have to see some redefinition and reconfiguration. You might see some audiences that are no longer served. But I think of what I heard from Maria O'Mara. She leads KUER public radio and PBS Utah. She says she hopes they come out of this stronger than ever. She said it is about the public service. They're needed by listeners, and she feels a clarity of mission even in this time of clear crisis.
SUMMERS: NPR's David Folkenflik. Thank you.
FOLKENFLIK: You bet. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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